In all fairness, Kamitsubaki shouldn't have opened preorders until Kaf gave the all-clear to the entire Kafu SynthV project.
SynthV SynthesizerV Musical Isotope KAFU
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She did give her all-clear, but retracted it when she saw the public's reaction to the project upon the demo's release, as she said in her personal statement.
For those seeking out cancellation/no cancellation news, these press releases have been very particularly written. They can't say "this project has been cancelled" in the event it is possible to continue it but it's very clearly been retired in its current form. I was also very excited for this VB but everything KAMITSUBAKI has been saying paints a picture of a product that is not going to surface anytime soon.
For those seeking out cancellation/no cancellation news, these press releases have been very particularly written. They can't say "this project has been cancelled" in the event it is possible to continue it but it's very clearly been retired in its current form. I was also very excited for this VB but everything KAMITSUBAKI has been saying paints a picture of a product that is not going to surface anytime soon.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the original statement, they did mention that KAF had already expressed that she wanted KAFU SynthV to be a "musical isotope" and not a 1:1 version of her. She ended up choosing the version that we heard after a few trials of the product, but we don't know what manner it was presented and the song choice, tuning style, etc all likely played a part in that clearance. So while yes she did give clearance, internally there was already a "we can't make it sound like KAF too much" which...for SynthV? I don't think the project should've proceeded at all with the purpose of the engine and KAF's wishes...
Totally agree that the wording is very calculated to save face with the outcome whichever it ends up being, though I can't see a future where this product ever releases personally...it's just too incompatible. I guess they could formant shift her, but they didn't even formant shift Teto that much; and if they locked a parameter on SynthV, would that really be something that would happen? It all just seems like it contradicts the entire nature of the program and DT's mission.
Looking back, I'm surprised a SynthV port was even attempted, considering how much it focuses on realism. I think even a V6 port could have kept the unrealistic tone of Kafu CeVIO without sounding too close to the real Kaf.
Honestly I think that having a Kafu vb (the way that Kaf wants it) for Synth V is completely possible. I don’t see why the devs can’t put their heads together and figure out a way to make it work. Having preorders for a product that Kaf wasn’t 100% on was definitely not a great idea though. (I’d really like to see someone attempt a non realistic AI bank with Synth V and push the borders of what can be done with the software)
So to be clear there is a difference between unrealistic and voice acted. I think Teto is perfectly realistic in how she sounds, but she's very much voice acted. I think a KAFU bank could be fine if Kaf's samples were voice acted as well.
But yes, although wording on official press release type things will always be careful, it's hard to say how things were truly presented to Kaf, how much pressure she was under, etc. I think fan reactions to the CeVIO AI poll situation would've made it obvious that fans wanted a realistic recreation. Unless the plan was to heavily voice act the samples and/or lock parameters in SV, I'd be surprised if feedback was truly so totally unexpected...
But yes, although wording on official press release type things will always be careful, it's hard to say how things were truly presented to Kaf, how much pressure she was under, etc. I think fan reactions to the CeVIO AI poll situation would've made it obvious that fans wanted a realistic recreation. Unless the plan was to heavily voice act the samples and/or lock parameters in SV, I'd be surprised if feedback was truly so totally unexpected...
Did you guys not think the demo was an interesting derivation from typical SV voices?
It stood out to me personally how stylistic it was compared to... practically every other offering on the engine. I don't think it was presented as a vocal that was "purely realistic" even if it was high-quality.
From my perspective, if DT had an issue with KAMITSUBAKI's creative vision, the demo would not have been published in the form it was.
EDIT: To clarify, I'm bringing this up not to share my personal feelings on how much I liked or disliked the pitch-clipping sound but rather because it seems to directly disprove the theory that KAMITSUBAKI was being intentionally ignorant by developing for this engine. I sincerely doubt the demo would have been published in the form it was if Dreamtonics hadn't made concessions for this product's development. As an aside, it's long overdue the software library saw some more experimental options, which is what it seems we were getting...
While we will never know exactly what went on behind the scenes, it might help broaden perspectives in the community if people actually read KAF's post about this vb specifically and things she has said about KAFU as an existing CeVIO product. I'm sorry for being blunt, but it's frustrating to see so much uncharitable interpretation of the artist's situation when ultimately it's her perspective on the development that is the core of the dilemma here, and yet it seems her existence as a human being with the capacity to have her feelings change on a development happening in real time is being considered less than theories about whether her reaction was reasonable or wasn't.
It stood out to me personally how stylistic it was compared to... practically every other offering on the engine. I don't think it was presented as a vocal that was "purely realistic" even if it was high-quality.
From my perspective, if DT had an issue with KAMITSUBAKI's creative vision, the demo would not have been published in the form it was.
EDIT: To clarify, I'm bringing this up not to share my personal feelings on how much I liked or disliked the pitch-clipping sound but rather because it seems to directly disprove the theory that KAMITSUBAKI was being intentionally ignorant by developing for this engine. I sincerely doubt the demo would have been published in the form it was if Dreamtonics hadn't made concessions for this product's development. As an aside, it's long overdue the software library saw some more experimental options, which is what it seems we were getting...
While we will never know exactly what went on behind the scenes, it might help broaden perspectives in the community if people actually read KAF's post about this vb specifically and things she has said about KAFU as an existing CeVIO product. I'm sorry for being blunt, but it's frustrating to see so much uncharitable interpretation of the artist's situation when ultimately it's her perspective on the development that is the core of the dilemma here, and yet it seems her existence as a human being with the capacity to have her feelings change on a development happening in real time is being considered less than theories about whether her reaction was reasonable or wasn't.
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They'd have to record new stuff in that case, which I'm not sure they would want to do...
While I did think the demo had some peculiar sounding things to it, without the raw vocals it's hard to say how much of it is in the voicebank itself and how much could be from post, etc. Dreamtonics likely did make concessions, but the concession of pulling a CeVIO and 100% formant shifting + locking the parameter seems very out of character for them no matter how experimental.
In case my stance was unclear, for which I apologize if so, I want to clarify that I fully support Kaf's decision. Whatever the circumstances may be, as you said she can change her mind and that is within her right. We are not owed her voice. She is allowing us to use it, and she can revoke that privilege at any time.
I think some frustration and disappointment is allowed -- although maybe I'm just being a jerk. Still, most of the reactions I've seen are aimed more towards the company than Kaf herself, which I think is for the best.
She is obviously allowed to want a product with her own voice to be how she wants it, and frankly I think that if she ends up uncomfortable with it just in general, that Kamitsubaki needs to take a step back and rethink the project entirely. Which seems to be what they're doing now with the cancelled preorders. Whether they can make a product that Kaf likes and sell that or they end up cancelling the bank, either way, I think the young woman being protected is more important than the product that vsynth fans want to buy
She is obviously allowed to want a product with her own voice to be how she wants it, and frankly I think that if she ends up uncomfortable with it just in general, that Kamitsubaki needs to take a step back and rethink the project entirely. Which seems to be what they're doing now with the cancelled preorders. Whether they can make a product that Kaf likes and sell that or they end up cancelling the bank, either way, I think the young woman being protected is more important than the product that vsynth fans want to buy
I agree with your perspective that Dreamtonics wouldn’t be okay with this, but the demo provided definitely didn’t have the CeVIO formant-lock sound, which is likely why they went down a distinct stylistic angle than what was present on the CeVIO vocal. Was just obviously not a feature or limitation that was being presented for this product.
When KAF discussed hearing samples for this VB, she was talking about samples for the SV version of her voice that weren’t shared with the public. So if that was the point of confusion, she wasn’t talking about approving the original formant-shifted CeVIO version. She approved the sample that became what we ultimately heard.
I understand that KAF doesn't want KAFU to sound identical to her but the results of all of this so far was very bad tbh.
I was able to try KAFU (CeVIO) and to be honest a voice like that is very limiting (not necessarily because of the type of voice tho).
And now the same problem again but worse, not wanting the most realistic synth on the market(imo) to sound too much just like the human her, without having taken any precautions during production.
They should stop trying to bite off more than they can chew.
They should stop trying to market the idea of selling a "version" or "isotope" or whatever of KAFU that ends up being rushed and carelessly made and just straight up, as people suggested here, do voice acting.
Or at the very least, know what they are going to do before accepting pre-orders and postponing delivery dates, and try to deliver a properly made product that doesn't rely on locking the user out of options to cover up their rushed work.
I was able to try KAFU (CeVIO) and to be honest a voice like that is very limiting (not necessarily because of the type of voice tho).
And now the same problem again but worse, not wanting the most realistic synth on the market(imo) to sound too much just like the human her, without having taken any precautions during production.
They should stop trying to bite off more than they can chew.
They should stop trying to market the idea of selling a "version" or "isotope" or whatever of KAFU that ends up being rushed and carelessly made and just straight up, as people suggested here, do voice acting.
Or at the very least, know what they are going to do before accepting pre-orders and postponing delivery dates, and try to deliver a properly made product that doesn't rely on locking the user out of options to cover up their rushed work.